For this you have my gratitude, blind and deaf as I am to the ways of the men who live in this ninetieth era, of which you claim much knowledge. In your knowledge I must put my faith. What I wish to know is this: is it common that men live together as would man and wife?
[This question he seems to deliberate over even as each word unfurls from his tongue, and his tone remains pensive as he continues.]
I have heard that in the city of Woodhurst, the households are far smaller than that to which I am accustomed: a man lives only with his wife and children, and the halls are empty of servants and kinsmen. Thus I know not where into my household might fit the gallant son of Menoetius, my dear companion - I would not leave him to his own house, alone in this strange land while it is ravaged by plague. He must remain by my side, therefore, as always he has done.
[If Jin has not yet discerned the nature of their relationship, then with this peculiar question and accompanying explanation, all should be made plain although still Achilles veils the truth in vagueness.]
[There's a slow shift in his expression: equally pensive at first, he grows more and more in clear empathy. It's obvious that Achilles has landed upon something that Jin has recently, if not always, had weighing heavily upon his mind.
Is it common. What an unjustly loaded question, even if Achilles does not know it.]
It is, Achilles. In some lands, it's frowned upon, but in the halls of ALASTAIR you'll see no such sentiments. [This he says with great certainty.] The Earth from which I hail from is... [his brows furrow, as he's considering his words] still coming around to the idea, and there's a slim chance it might be more uncommon in Woodhurst in the same way, but most of your teammates wouldn't think ill of two men living together. Particularly not if your aim is to keep him safe.
[A thin smile.]
You're already aware that I'm of that inclination. So you won't see any judgment from me, that's for sure.
[He cannot help the wry smile that turns the corners of his lips when Jin alludes to the moment they had shared beneath the mistletoe: it is for this, of course, that he knew the matter would be safe to discuss with him.]
Among the Achaeans, the love between brothers in arms is matched in strength and honor only by the love between father and son - and there is room enough that such love between friends might stoke passion in the heart and loins as is the way too between men and women, but these matters are best kept private. If, however, it is common enough that men make plain the love they share and live together thus...then this would be to my liking. I wish not to part from my dear companion, but nor do I wish to draw unfriendly attention while we are tasked with folding ourselves into the ways of this land.
[Here follows a pause, as if he must allow time for this to settle in his thoughts as sand settles in a stream bed.]
By what title shall I call him, then? What shall he be in my estimation?
[A short, dry laugh.] There's no judgment if you do keep things private, but... trust me. It feels way better to let people know about the feelings you have for your companion rather than stifling them.
[don't tell him about ur thirst tho achilles he doesnt wanna know]
You exist, and so does the love you share: living with another man, you'd hardly be drawing much more attention than our brothers in arms who are only learning to be human themselves.
[Jin stops to think, too: they're fairly culturally disparate, so the term 'boyfriend' seems too ill-suited to work well all for Achilles. And 'lover' would probably not give the proper connotation.]
[Are you certain you do not wish to hear Achilles wax poetic on the virtues of Patroclus' thighs...?]
Then my life partner he shall be. How appropriate this epithet seems to me, for I can scarce recall the years before gentle-hearted Patroclus was taken into my father's house, and he has been close by my side ever since, but for the years I passed upon steep Scyros.
I confess that it seems strange to me to so freely bare our hearts, when long have I grown accustomed to showing one manner of love in public - the love one has for his comrade, his friend - and revealing in private a love more passionate. But perhaps you speak true to say it shall be a relief to no longer carefully mark such distinctions, although it shall take time to adjust.
[More than a decade they have lived this way, after all, slipping deliberately between their public and private lives.]
[he is 100% certain that he's good, thank u no thank u]
Since you were both boys, then? If you've been that close [and probably not together, per se, but close enough, he'd wager] for so many years, it's only fitting. I'm glad that ALASTAIR reunited you two, circumstances aside.
[Jin digests that. Achilles' culture is so far-flung from his own experience, as usual, and yet...]
That's common, too. Was it... frowned upon, to openly show your love for another man before the eyes of your people? That was the case on my world for many years, and for myself. Living two lives, almost: it wears on the mind.
I scarce need say how grateful I am to have by my side one so dear, one who once I lost to the hated gates of death.
[The warmth lighting his countenance soon wanes into solemnnity.]
It would be an affront to decency were a man to claim another man for his lover before all. A man makes public his wife and his bedmates, that no other man may impinge upon that which is rightfully his, but there is no need to make public a lover who too is a man. Such love I ought to have discarded by now, for I am at an age when a man must have a wife who shall bear him children - but how am I to cut from my heart he who is my second self?
[This explanation is heavy upon his tongue, for Achilles prides himself in honoring the principles of his fatherland, of fitting so seamlessly into the weave of Achaean tradition, and yet here is one snag that he cannot smooth, nor would he wish to.]
I am not ashamed of my love for Menoetius' son - not once have I been ashamed to love this man who to me appears as a god striding the earth. Yet this is how it must be in our dear native land. What of your home? You say that such was the case there too, but what of the present?
1/2 im sorry in advance for how long this will take
Well, that's... dated. [Even he's not going to completely stand for crossed cultural wires on one. "Rightfully his", really.] I'm fairly sure you've already figured this out, but marriage has definitely stopped being about your mate as property.
[But Achilles' words do much to reassure Jin. Achilles, a force of nature, the crash of wave upon jagged ocean rock, describes his emotions with a heart that is, unequivocally, full. All the bluster in the world could hardly take away from that: a man who speaks of love.
Perhaps he's just a romantic, after all. Or he's simply projecting again.]
You'll be pleased to discover that most other worlds do not place a limit of age upon love, though. Successors aside, no one would force the blade to your heart there. Or they shouldn't, anyway.
2/2 this is way heavier than a tag from an mk character should be
Jin's not deluded into believing that all of his relatives have shed their old habits, old customs, and old prejudices, not even for the nephew who'd followed directly in the shadowy footsteps of the Great Kung Lao himself. Much less the world itself. He bears an expression that speaks of something unsettled, not looking directly into Achilles' eyes through the feed: evidently, "was" is not quite gone.]
I should say that it's still that way. As I said, people are still coming around to it. Their gods, or the priests of those gods, anyway, condemn the love between two of the same sex. Sometimes, not even the act itself: just the idea that it could happen, or be possible, at all. There's no accepted period to experiment. It's just... something that shouldn't even occur in the first place.
I-- [Jin falters. It's almost too personal a story to tell, with wounds still fresh and hurts still newly dealt. Even over years, he's still a little hesitant to come forth with it all.] --thought I would be rejected completely, because of it. Many people still wouldn't approve of me, loving men alone. But it was a god who first told me that none of that mattered. [He wonders, distantly, if Raiden knows how those words had very well saved his life.] And more people understand, or try to understand, every day.
[Well does he know that in the eyes of much of this crew, the ways of his people are old-fashioned - backwards, a description he despises for it calls to his mind savages who neither work the land with plow nor tame the waves with ships. The more he sees of the ways in which men of other races and eras live, the wider his mind is tugged open, yet still his own traditions drape about him like well-worn clothing that he cannot cast aside. Thus he cannot see why a man would not have claim over his bride, she who has devoted herself to him, she whom he boasts for his treasure.
But this is not what this conversation is about: thus he tucks away such thoughts for another time and listens with keen interest.]
That your love should be condemned as are the twisted passions between parent and child...what an insult this is to bear. Among the Achaeans it would be greater cause for censure to lay insult against one's own father, or to trample upon the guest rights that almighty Zeus guards. At times I have wondered what aging Peleus might think if he knew of the passions that have long flourished between me and gentle-hearted Patroclus...but not once have I feared my father's condemnation.
[What is a snag in the fabric of his culture seems to be a deep rent in that of Jin's.]
Yet if a god protects the love you may bear for another man, then this ought to be all the assurance you require. The decrees that men make are as nothing to the deathless gods. Perhaps this goes without saying, but I shall not reject you for whom you love.
[Little does he know that Jin's boyfriend-to-be is a punk-ass bitch...
There follows a pause as he continues to ruminate over all that Jin has told him.]
Although, and I mean no insult by this-- I did not know that there live men whose hearts swell not with love for women, but only for men. Is it not natural that men should wish to lie with women, as is the way of our kind?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
[This question he seems to deliberate over even as each word unfurls from his tongue, and his tone remains pensive as he continues.]
I have heard that in the city of Woodhurst, the households are far smaller than that to which I am accustomed: a man lives only with his wife and children, and the halls are empty of servants and kinsmen. Thus I know not where into my household might fit the gallant son of Menoetius, my dear companion - I would not leave him to his own house, alone in this strange land while it is ravaged by plague. He must remain by my side, therefore, as always he has done.
[If Jin has not yet discerned the nature of their relationship, then with this peculiar question and accompanying explanation, all should be made plain although still Achilles veils the truth in vagueness.]
no subject
Is it common. What an unjustly loaded question, even if Achilles does not know it.]
It is, Achilles. In some lands, it's frowned upon, but in the halls of ALASTAIR you'll see no such sentiments. [This he says with great certainty.] The Earth from which I hail from is... [his brows furrow, as he's considering his words] still coming around to the idea, and there's a slim chance it might be more uncommon in Woodhurst in the same way, but most of your teammates wouldn't think ill of two men living together. Particularly not if your aim is to keep him safe.
[A thin smile.]
You're already aware that I'm of that inclination. So you won't see any judgment from me, that's for sure.
no subject
Among the Achaeans, the love between brothers in arms is matched in strength and honor only by the love between father and son - and there is room enough that such love between friends might stoke passion in the heart and loins as is the way too between men and women, but these matters are best kept private. If, however, it is common enough that men make plain the love they share and live together thus...then this would be to my liking. I wish not to part from my dear companion, but nor do I wish to draw unfriendly attention while we are tasked with folding ourselves into the ways of this land.
[Here follows a pause, as if he must allow time for this to settle in his thoughts as sand settles in a stream bed.]
By what title shall I call him, then? What shall he be in my estimation?
no subject
[don't tell him about ur thirst tho achilles he doesnt wanna know]
You exist, and so does the love you share: living with another man, you'd hardly be drawing much more attention than our brothers in arms who are only learning to be human themselves.
[Jin stops to think, too: they're fairly culturally disparate, so the term 'boyfriend' seems too ill-suited to work well all for Achilles. And 'lover' would probably not give the proper connotation.]
Your life partner. Or simply your partner.
no subject
Then my life partner he shall be. How appropriate this epithet seems to me, for I can scarce recall the years before gentle-hearted Patroclus was taken into my father's house, and he has been close by my side ever since, but for the years I passed upon steep Scyros.
I confess that it seems strange to me to so freely bare our hearts, when long have I grown accustomed to showing one manner of love in public - the love one has for his comrade, his friend - and revealing in private a love more passionate. But perhaps you speak true to say it shall be a relief to no longer carefully mark such distinctions, although it shall take time to adjust.
[More than a decade they have lived this way, after all, slipping deliberately between their public and private lives.]
no subject
Since you were both boys, then? If you've been that close [and probably not together, per se, but close enough, he'd wager] for so many years, it's only fitting. I'm glad that ALASTAIR reunited you two, circumstances aside.
[Jin digests that. Achilles' culture is so far-flung from his own experience, as usual, and yet...]
That's common, too. Was it... frowned upon, to openly show your love for another man before the eyes of your people? That was the case on my world for many years, and for myself. Living two lives, almost: it wears on the mind.
no subject
[The warmth lighting his countenance soon wanes into solemnnity.]
It would be an affront to decency were a man to claim another man for his lover before all. A man makes public his wife and his bedmates, that no other man may impinge upon that which is rightfully his, but there is no need to make public a lover who too is a man. Such love I ought to have discarded by now, for I am at an age when a man must have a wife who shall bear him children - but how am I to cut from my heart he who is my second self?
[This explanation is heavy upon his tongue, for Achilles prides himself in honoring the principles of his fatherland, of fitting so seamlessly into the weave of Achaean tradition, and yet here is one snag that he cannot smooth, nor would he wish to.]
I am not ashamed of my love for Menoetius' son - not once have I been ashamed to love this man who to me appears as a god striding the earth. Yet this is how it must be in our dear native land. What of your home? You say that such was the case there too, but what of the present?
1/2 im sorry in advance for how long this will take
[But Achilles' words do much to reassure Jin. Achilles, a force of nature, the crash of wave upon jagged ocean rock, describes his emotions with a heart that is, unequivocally, full. All the bluster in the world could hardly take away from that: a man who speaks of love.
Perhaps he's just a romantic, after all. Or he's simply projecting again.]
You'll be pleased to discover that most other worlds do not place a limit of age upon love, though. Successors aside, no one would force the blade to your heart there. Or they shouldn't, anyway.
2/2 this is way heavier than a tag from an mk character should be
Jin's not deluded into believing that all of his relatives have shed their old habits, old customs, and old prejudices, not even for the nephew who'd followed directly in the shadowy footsteps of the Great Kung Lao himself. Much less the world itself. He bears an expression that speaks of something unsettled, not looking directly into Achilles' eyes through the feed: evidently, "was" is not quite gone.]
I should say that it's still that way. As I said, people are still coming around to it. Their gods, or the priests of those gods, anyway, condemn the love between two of the same sex. Sometimes, not even the act itself: just the idea that it could happen, or be possible, at all. There's no accepted period to experiment. It's just... something that shouldn't even occur in the first place.
I-- [Jin falters. It's almost too personal a story to tell, with wounds still fresh and hurts still newly dealt. Even over years, he's still a little hesitant to come forth with it all.] --thought I would be rejected completely, because of it. Many people still wouldn't approve of me, loving men alone. But it was a god who first told me that none of that mattered. [He wonders, distantly, if Raiden knows how those words had very well saved his life.] And more people understand, or try to understand, every day.
...
Hope that makes sense.
no subject
But this is not what this conversation is about: thus he tucks away such thoughts for another time and listens with keen interest.]
That your love should be condemned as are the twisted passions between parent and child...what an insult this is to bear. Among the Achaeans it would be greater cause for censure to lay insult against one's own father, or to trample upon the guest rights that almighty Zeus guards. At times I have wondered what aging Peleus might think if he knew of the passions that have long flourished between me and gentle-hearted Patroclus...but not once have I feared my father's condemnation.
[What is a snag in the fabric of his culture seems to be a deep rent in that of Jin's.]
Yet if a god protects the love you may bear for another man, then this ought to be all the assurance you require. The decrees that men make are as nothing to the deathless gods. Perhaps this goes without saying, but I shall not reject you for whom you love.
[Little does he know that Jin's boyfriend-to-be is a punk-ass bitch...
There follows a pause as he continues to ruminate over all that Jin has told him.]
Although, and I mean no insult by this-- I did not know that there live men whose hearts swell not with love for women, but only for men. Is it not natural that men should wish to lie with women, as is the way of our kind?